[Storm]

I can fully see the approach you describe and sure you will get a response from the dog applied correctly and sure it is a form of training but for many of us attitude, drive and driving with attitude into positions for reward/release all collectively moulds a dog that goes out there with intention. By starting a dogs outlook by "avoiding discomfort" like I said sure you will get a response BUT for a specific intention, this approach alone, missing many various other aspects, is a waste of time and futile approach. The dog misses out on very important drive development, the ability to work in drive, holding drive, capping and the ability to release etc. drive is a very important aspect of performance and attitude, through the avoidance of discomfort thus learning how to terminate stim and this ALONE in development.................it falls so short of many needs and will not do! But hey for some people, maybe that is all they need, their choice I guess. If all actions are taught using basic drive manipulation with the development thereof, there is no need what so ever for electric as the foundation is in place, having addressed many other aspects at the same time. Development to me means from the age of 7 weeks, once again showing how resourceful drive can be utilised at even such a young age for learning phases. Sure if I can teach a very young dog this way addressing all this for what wait till the dog is so much older and start by addressing it with such a shallow, limited concept?