[samanthac]

The suitability test is a requirement of the registry, it is not a national "law". Someone can breed mixes or purebreds as long as they have no desire to register them with the ADRK.

I don't think I said anywhere that it was a law :), but rather a requirement, meaning an ADRK requirement. Sure they can, but I have talked to enough Germans to know that this is not desireable and money cannot be made off unergistered or mixed dogs. I am not saying that the Germans do not love their dogs, but more than one of them has told me that most Germans would sell their mother for the right price. Its a business in Germany and one does not make money selling substandard 'product'. They'd be insane not to register a litter of baby Rick's or Bea's.

Also they would not be able to show unregistered dogs. That is not desireable because they could not gain notariety by proving the dog which leads to sales of dogs which means money.

When one gets all enamored of Germany

I am not all 'enamored' of Germany :). But I do admire the German kennels and their breeding programs and I am not ashamed to admit that!!!! They have produced some of the finest, most winning, consistently producing Rottweilers in the world. They obviously have a keen understanding of genetics and phenotyping. They CONSISTENTLY produce good, typey dogs with good temperemants that can susccessfully compete in both the show and conformation venues, which is why we are always trying to get our hands on their dogs to improve our lines.

All I am saying is that Americans are so quick to dismiss the German breeding programs when we could all learn so much from it.

And the subject was not on breed bans ;). You cannot persecute all Germans for the acts of a few (Green Party). That would be like associating all animal lovers with PETA. ADRK did fight the tail thing albeit unsuccessfully and the muzzle law was reversed as well as the bans of Rottweilers and Pitbulls in many provinces. And I am sure that the German Rottweiler breeders who make a lot of money and noteriety off their dogs do not want their breeds banned either. Someone from Germany told me that this kind of thing has happened before. When the political tide in Germany changes, things will change. No matter where you go there will be BSL.

I think it is quite spurious to equate breeding restrictions with letting a murderer walk free.

Please do not put words in my mouth :). I did not say that. :)

I believe if we had better access to those shows and trials, we would blow the Germans away. But how many people can afford to show in Finland or Italy? We just dont have good access to FCI events, so I dont believe that is a fair comparison. And its thru no fault of ours.

Actually if you talk to some German people you will find out that they do not travel all over the world for their shows. Most of the Germany people have very modest living arrangements. They are not a wealthy people. Their economy is not like ours. They are a small country. They travel to mostly local ADRK shows and the Klubseigers, Korungs, etc. very, very rarely if ever, leave Germany. Heck one judge that was over here not to long ago is a janitor by trade. If the clubs did not pay to fly him over, he could not afford to come here to judge.

I am not saying that some, very few in my opinion, American dogs could not compete well in FCI venues. Look at Jenecks Sam. But we don't see the Germans rushing over here to show in our shows either because they also cannot afford to travel all over the world. So they could say the same of us...through no fault of their own.

Yes, the system in Germany is preferable to what we have. But they also have a country that is nowhere near our size. They can have breed wardens and strict requirements. There is just no way we could do that, we're too spread out here.

Yes, the system is prefereable to ours...we have no system. People breed as they choose. Where there is a will, there is a way. The problem is not that we could not do it, but rather that is would force a lot of breeders out because their dogs could not cut it. And that is where the fight would come from.

However, I find it funny that we are quick to dismiss the German system, but every single one of ours clubs try to emulate it in some way(s). Dosen't USRC have breed wardens????? ;)

I think we produce alot of good dogs here, and nothing prevents you from producing to the ADRK guidelines, or any other guidelines for that matter. But its not mandated and we are allowed to produce what suits us, which is the fairy and the devil all rolled up into one.

Amen. I have seen some very nice dogs produced here, but they are so few and it makes me SO sad. We have the money, the time and the wherewithal to produce some very fine dogs...every single bit the caliber of the German/Eurpoean dogs that we are importing. If people got serious and really wanted to.

And yes, nothing prevents people from following ADRK guidelines exceot that most people don't because they know that their dogs can't meet the requirements and that is why they fight it and dismiss it. Face it, the requirements are quite rigorous. At least 75%,a nd I am being generous, of the dogs I see on the show circuit could never meet those standards.

Yes, it is sad...the fairy and the devil, what an eloquent way to put it.

Do we need some type of requirements? Maybe. Hip, elbow and heart testing would be what I would like to see required. Eyes might make the list too. But I dont believe in the breed test enough to require it of every breeding.

Well, this is where you and I differ a bit. You think that the people admining the breed tests are all corrupt and just pass dogs through. I am not quite as cynical as you ;), and think that they serve their place. I do beleive in them as they have been used for years and for the most part work and weed out the undesireables...every system is flawed though and I am sure a few fall through the cracks. Frankly I think TWO breed tests should be required by different judges, on different days in different venues should be required. And in the current climate of BSL legislation, breed testing is not necessarily a bad thing.

I agree fully on the health tests that you propose, but again, remember, like your objection to the breed tests, a helath tests is only as good as the person administering it. :(

So in toto, I am not saying that the Germans are the end all and be all. But frankly, they have a system that works so they must be doing something right. They produce good, consistent, balanced dogs that we all want to get our hands on and are paying top dollar for! So we should not be so quick to dismiss them and their systems and their requirements. We could learn a lot from them. And if we did, and cracked down here and started producing consistent, quality dogs, I think you would see the Germans striving to import our dogs!

Thats all I was saying! :)